Discussion:
Let's list the "DEATH THREATS" Chris X of the BNP has received on Usenet !
(too old to reply)
Ariadne
2005-10-20 12:37:34 UTC
Permalink
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
posted to:

uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british

The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.

His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
others of freedom.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Ariadne
2005-10-20 12:45:13 UTC
Permalink
|> Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request
|> for information is
|> posted to:
|>
|> uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
|> soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
|>
|> The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
|> in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
|>
|> His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
|> does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
|> who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
|> others of freedom.
|>
|> 1.
|> 2.
|> 3.
|> 4.
|> 5.

He has posted one inane response instead of evidence
and deleted some groups !
El Conquistador
2005-10-20 12:46:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
others of freedom.
JEWISH THREATS ARE DIME A DOZEN. THEY NEVER CEASE!
JUST PUT YOUR GLOCK IN THE BACK POCKET AND LET THEM
ENJOY SIX INCHES AIRHOLES IN THEIR BELLY!
Ariadne
2005-10-20 13:00:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by El Conquistador
Post by Ariadne
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
others of freedom.
JEWISH THREATS ARE DIME A DOZEN.
Ah, another foul pest of Usenet, NaziCabal !
Post by El Conquistador
THEY NEVER CEASE!
You had better post some then, NaziCabal.

I have not seen one against KKKris X, your
insane self or anyone else !

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Post by El Conquistador
JUST PUT YOUR GLOCK IN THE BACK POCKET AND LET THEM
ENJOY SIX INCHES AIRHOLES IN THEIR BELLY!
Jon°
2005-10-20 13:06:04 UTC
Permalink
Ariadne, you are not a very clever little "Yiddisher Boy". In fact some of
your cleverer compatriots must squirm with embarrassment at the way you
post. They may even think that with friends like you, Anti-Semitism cannot
be far behind?
"Ariadne" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-20 13:27:47 UTC
Permalink
And you would be wrong as usual.

You fecking NAZI Sassanach bastard.


"Jon�" <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@212.67.96.135...
: Ariadne, you are not a very clever little "Yiddisher Boy". In fact
some of
: your cleverer compatriots must squirm with embarrassment at the way
you
: post. They may even think that with friends like you, Anti-Semitism
cannot
: be far behind?
: "Ariadne" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
:
:
Donegal Dannys mum
2005-10-20 13:39:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
And you would be wrong as usual.
You fecking NAZI Sassanach bastard.
thas roight rheanne yous tell dat feckin scotch barstard where to get
off the proddy swine that he is. us gypsies shuld stick together son.
why youser a quare lookin divil though isnt ye rhianne i saw yer
picture on here http://gaydar.co.uk/riain_il i new you was that
shortlifter we met in Dunmanway last year near to were auld Mick
Collins bought it God rest him. are ye still selling yer arse fer a
foiver. Do ye know were are Danny is be any chance son?
Ariadne
2005-10-20 14:01:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
And you would be wrong as usual.
You fecking NAZI Sassanach bastard.
Fine description of Jinnah Jon.

He is somewhat lacking in Western culture
but goosesteps his way around Usenet anyway.

I have not received any evidence so far of those
"death threats" Chavdullah complains of.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Jon°
2005-10-20 14:14:58 UTC
Permalink
The term "death threats"! Is more appropriately applied to the modern day
storm troopers and undercover agents of the terrorist state of Israel, then
to other posters on Usenet. These Israeli state assassins murder anybody
that they wish to "shut up".

Zionist Jews cannot tolerate open discussion or comparisons of points of
view. With them it is just the same as Alice's Queen "Off with their heads"
they scream hysterically, they are unable to accept that others have valid
points of view..........So speak all those who do not understand equality of
reason.

It was the same in the Nazi concentration camps........Most of the guards
were Jewish "Kapos" who had sold themselves to the Germans for the usual 30
pieces of silver. They, it is remembered, were the cruellest guards of all,
even to other Jews......Who may not have approved of Zionism?

Who do you think you are?........"The chosen race".
"Ariadne" <***@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-20 14:37:37 UTC
Permalink
More lies from the British NAZI pig...


"Jon�" <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@212.67.96.135...
: The term "death threats"! Is more appropriately applied to the modern
day
: storm troopers and undercover agents of the terrorist state of
Israel, then
: to other posters on Usenet. These Israeli state assassins murder
anybody
: that they wish to "shut up".
:
: Zionist Jews cannot tolerate open discussion or comparisons of points
of
: view. With them it is just the same as Alice's Queen "Off with their
heads"
: they scream hysterically, they are unable to accept that others have
valid
: points of view..........So speak all those who do not understand
equality of
: reason.
:
: It was the same in the Nazi concentration camps........Most of the
guards
: were Jewish "Kapos" who had sold themselves to the Germans for the
usual 30
: pieces of silver. They, it is remembered, were the cruellest guards of
all,
: even to other Jews......Who may not have approved of Zionism?
:
: Who do you think you are?........"The chosen race".
: "Ariadne" <***@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
:
:
Jon°
2005-10-21 13:42:56 UTC
Permalink
Hear we go again, unsubstantiated accusations from an uninformed Zionist who
has no historical understanding of what he is posting. The only thing he
understands is how to utilise gutter-language.
"øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" <***@zion.org.il> wrote in message
news:BTN5f.3659
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-21 15:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Tell us what your university degree is in?

Prove that I do not have any historical understanding of Israel.


"Jon�" <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@212.67.96.135...
: Hear we go again, unsubstantiated accusations from an uninformed
Zionist who
: has no historical understanding of what he is posting. The only thing
he
: understands is how to utilise gutter-language.
: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" <***@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: news:BTN5f.3659
:
:
Deborah Sharavi
2005-10-21 15:52:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon°
Hear we go again, unsubstantiated accusations from an uninformed Zionist who
has no historical understanding of what he is posting.
"Unsubstantiated accusations from an uninformed sone Yisrael who has
shown no historical knowledge or understanding of what he is posting"
is more descriptive of the Jon poster here.

Deborah
Ariadne
2005-10-21 16:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deborah Sharavi
Post by Jon°
Hear we go again, unsubstantiated accusations from an uninformed Zionist who
has no historical understanding of what he is posting.
"Unsubstantiated accusations from an uninformed sone Yisrael who has
shown no historical knowledge or understanding of what he is posting"
is more descriptive of the Jon poster here.
Deborah
They are all full of lies like Chavdullah who
has not provided evidence of any "death threat"
made against him on Usenet.
Jon°
2005-10-20 14:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Once more a singular Jewish Zionist raises his head from amongst the shite
that he exists in and makes accusations that suit his ilk more then the
Gentile breed.
"øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" <***@zion.org.il> wrote in message
news:eRM5f.3649
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-20 14:08:15 UTC
Permalink
BAWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

I am from County Tipperary, Ireland, you fecking eejit.


"Jon�" <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@212.67.96.135...
: Once more a singular Jewish Zionist raises his head from amongst the
shite
: that he exists in and makes accusations that suit his ilk more then
the
: Gentile breed.
: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" <***@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: news:eRM5f.3649
:
:
Ariadne
2005-10-20 14:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
BAWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
I am from County Tipperary, Ireland, you fecking eejit.
Goosestepping Jinnah Jon is of indeterminate origin
but we know that his present consists of avoiding
challenges and spewing hatred and lies.

Still no evidence for Chavdullah's allegations of
death threats:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Jon°
2005-10-20 14:18:54 UTC
Permalink
You never try to refute, in a logical fashion, any of the points I make. If
they were all lies, surely, even a Yiddish schmuck like you would find that
easy.
"Ariadne" <***@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
onlyme
2005-10-20 15:25:12 UTC
Permalink
...spewing hatred and lies.
That's a bit rich coming from you aridasshole
But why single out Jon and Chris and one or two others......pretty much the
majority of the world despise the Jews...(that's the ideology in
general....the zionazis in particular...but not every Jew individually!).
Untill the Jews clean up their act...this will continue to be the case.
Untill the Jewish people disassociate themselves from evil zionazi-loving
racist bigots such as yourself aridasshole, the will continue to be view in
the negative.
It's only the zionazis who jump on every single negative comment about the
Jews as somehow evil and antisemitic.
It's only the zionazis who go on and on and on and on and on and on and
on....about the holocaust.
It's only the zionazis who seek to perpetuate this hand-wringing victim
mentality...and then use it to their evil ends.
It's only the zionazis who who have the money and influence to control our
media, ...and influence foreign western governments to send their troops to
be slaughtered, to further enhance the zionazi goal of world domination.

For every 1 zionazi...there must be 1000 decent Jews....
So (to the many decent Jews)...isn't is time you turfed out the shite in
your midst?
Chris X
2005-10-20 15:42:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by onlyme
...spewing hatred and lies.
That's a bit rich coming from you aridasshole
But why single out Jon and Chris and one or two others......pretty much the
majority of the world despise the Jews...(that's the ideology in
general....the zionazis in particular...but not every Jew individually!).
Untill the Jews clean up their act...this will continue to be the case.
Untill the Jewish people disassociate themselves from evil zionazi-loving
racist bigots such as yourself aridasshole, the will continue to be view in
the negative.
It's only the zionazis who jump on every single negative comment about the
Jews as somehow evil and antisemitic.
It's only the zionazis who go on and on and on and on and on and on and
on....about the holocaust.
It's only the zionazis who seek to perpetuate this hand-wringing victim
mentality...and then use it to their evil ends.
It's only the zionazis who who have the money and influence to control our
media, ...and influence foreign western governments to send their troops to
be slaughtered, to further enhance the zionazi goal of world domination.
For every 1 zionazi...there must be 1000 decent Jews....
So (to the many decent Jews)...isn't is time you turfed out the shite in
your midst?
Good post !
Ariadne
2005-10-21 12:49:03 UTC
Permalink
Still waiting for evidence of those "death threats", Chavdullah !

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

What !

None !

Were you _lying_ as usual ? !
Jon°
2005-10-21 10:40:38 UTC
Permalink
You have it in one "only me", my sentiments entirely. Most Jews on this
thread are Jewish Schmucks who think with their Zionist arses and not their
heads.

There are plenty of decent Jews, I do business with many, its these filthy
Zionists' I hate. (and so do many none Zionist Jews) It was Zionist Jews who
made up many of the kapo guards in Nazi concentration camps, they were the
cruellest guards of all, even to other Jews.

Just examine the number of Zionist Jews who have become gangsters, spivs,
corrupt business men etc in the western world, the numbers are endless.
Zionism originated in the depths of Eastern Europe, the Jews who have lived
in the west for centuries, are totally different. Shame for decent Jews that
the Zionists' in Israel are defaming the name of Judaism by their murderous
tactics in stealing land from the Arabs.
"onlyme" <***@home.com> wrote in message news:dj8cso$pol$***@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-
Jason P
2005-10-21 15:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon°
You have it in one "only me", my sentiments entirely. Most Jews on this
thread are Jewish Schmucks who think with their Zionist arses and not their
heads.
There are plenty of decent Jews, I do business with many, its these filthy
Zionists' I hate. (and so do many none Zionist Jews) It was Zionist Jews who
made up many of the kapo guards in Nazi concentration camps, they were the
cruellest guards of all, even to other Jews.
Just examine the number of Zionist Jews who have become gangsters, spivs,
corrupt business men etc in the western world, the numbers are endless.
Zionism originated in the depths of Eastern Europe, the Jews who have lived
in the west for centuries, are totally different. Shame for decent Jews that
the Zionists' in Israel are defaming the name of Judaism by their murderous
tactics in stealing land from the Arabs.
I really have to agree with that statement. Some of the militants are
becoming very hard to deal with.
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-21 15:53:30 UTC
Permalink
And you are a habitual liar and a Jew-hating prick.


"Jon�" <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@212.67.96.135...
: You have it in one "only me", my sentiments entirely. Most Jews on
this
: thread are Jewish Schmucks who think with their Zionist arses and not
their
: heads.
:
: There are plenty of decent Jews, I do business with many, its these
filthy
: Zionists' I hate. (and so do many none Zionist Jews) It was Zionist
Jews who
: made up many of the kapo guards in Nazi concentration camps, they were
the
: cruellest guards of all, even to other Jews.
:
: Just examine the number of Zionist Jews who have become gangsters,
spivs,
: corrupt business men etc in the western world, the numbers are
endless.
: Zionism originated in the depths of Eastern Europe, the Jews who have
lived
: in the west for centuries, are totally different. Shame for decent
Jews that
: the Zionists' in Israel are defaming the name of Judaism by their
murderous
: tactics in stealing land from the Arabs.
: "onlyme" <***@home.com> wrote in message
: news:dj8cso$pol$***@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-
:
:
Jon°
2005-10-20 14:16:20 UTC
Permalink
You are also nuts and if you are not sure of your lineage it is because you
do not know who your father is.
"øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" <***@zion.org.il> wrote in message
news:asN5f.3654
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-20 14:38:44 UTC
Permalink
What a fuck idiot you are!

I know my lineage!!! What the fuck has it got to do with Judaism? You
stupid fucking British NAZI twat.



"Jon�" <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@212.67.96.135...
: You are also nuts and if you are not sure of your lineage it is
because you
: do not know who your father is.
: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" <***@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: news:asN5f.3654
:
:
Jon°
2005-10-21 10:03:16 UTC
Permalink
You show you come from the gutter by the language you use. Therefore even if
you do know your father I would wager he was not married to your mother.

Ignorant Jewish bastards like you can never answer questions with facts,
all you can do is foul the air with filth and try to use abuse to cover your
lack of knowledge.
"øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" <***@zion.org.il> wrote in message
news:DUN5f.3660
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-21 15:54:56 UTC
Permalink
What part of IRELAND did you not understand?

My father was married to my mother, again I am not a bastard, and you
are an immature habitual liar.


"Jon�" <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@212.67.96.135...
: You show you come from the gutter by the language you use. Therefore
even if
: you do know your father I would wager he was not married to your
mother.
:
: Ignorant Jewish bastards like you can never answer questions with
facts,
: all you can do is foul the air with filth and try to use abuse to
cover your
: lack of knowledge.
: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" <***@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: news:DUN5f.3660
:
:
B***@isp.com
2005-10-21 01:26:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
And you would be wrong as usual.
You fecking NAZI Sassanach bastard.
Uh oh, racism rears its ugly head again. You had better be
careful Brenda or someone will report you to the ACLU (jew inc)
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
: Ariadne, you are not a very clever little "Yiddisher Boy". In fact
some of
: your cleverer compatriots must squirm with embarrassment at the way
you
: post. They may even think that with friends like you, Anti-Semitism
cannot
: be far behind?
El Bleacho
2005-10-21 01:34:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@isp.com
Uh oh, racism rears its ugly head again. You had better be
careful Brenda or someone will report you to the ACLU (jew inc)
Calling the ACLU "Jew Inc." is not racist? Idiot. ^K
The Re'ev
2005-10-21 05:11:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by El Bleacho
Post by B***@isp.com
Uh oh, racism rears its ugly head again. You had better be
careful Brenda or someone will report you to the ACLU (jew inc)
Calling the ACLU "Jew Inc." is not racist? Idiot. ^K
Time for your Clorox enema, asshole.
Bob
2005-10-23 09:54:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by El Bleacho
Post by B***@isp.com
Uh oh, racism rears its ugly head again. You had better be
careful Brenda or someone will report you to the ACLU (jew inc)
Calling the ACLU "Jew Inc." is not racist?
Actually, that is rather humorous.
--
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anti-scammers A 419 Internet fraud
pandemic - the "romance scam": Nigerian, Russian and East European
criminals are using dating sites, Yahoo chat rooms and Yahoo messenger
to con people. Using fake profiles with photos of real models, they
"romance" both men and women and then con them. Join the group to learn
more.
El Conquistador
2005-10-20 21:24:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Post by El Conquistador
Post by Ariadne
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
others of freedom.
JEWISH THREATS ARE DIME A DOZEN.
Ah, another foul pest of Usenet, NaziCabal !
Post by El Conquistador
THEY NEVER CEASE!
You had better post some then, NaziCabal.
Why Nazi Ariadne? I have given up on Jewish threats long time ago. Just
Mickey's crappy threats could fill a dozen pages!
Post by Ariadne
Post by El Conquistador
JUST PUT YOUR GLOCK IN THE BACK POCKET AND LET THEM
ENJOY SIX INCHES AIRHOLES IN THEIR BELLY!
Ariadne
2005-10-20 21:57:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by El Conquistador
Post by Ariadne
Post by El Conquistador
Post by Ariadne
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
others of freedom.
JEWISH THREATS ARE DIME A DOZEN.
Ah, another foul pest of Usenet, NaziCabal !
Post by El Conquistador
THEY NEVER CEASE!
You had better post some then, NaziCabal.
Why Nazi Ariadne? I have given up on Jewish threats long time ago. Just
Mickey's crappy threats could fill a dozen pages!
Those aren't threats, NaziCabal. You lie about Jews
all the time but on Mickey's list are the lies about
yourself that we all enjoy reading.

However. that gets away from Chavdullah's list. We
are still waiting for him to provide evidence of
the "death threats" made against him on Usenet.
Post by El Conquistador
Post by Ariadne
Post by El Conquistador
JUST PUT YOUR GLOCK IN THE BACK POCKET AND LET THEM
ENJOY SIX INCHES AIRHOLES IN THEIR BELLY!
Jon°
2005-10-21 10:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Jewish Kapo Jews who kissed Nazi arses, to gain kudos in the Nazi
concentration camps, were always making death threats to other inmates. Why
should you racist Jews on Usenet be any different.?
"Ariadne" <***@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-21 15:55:49 UTC
Permalink
Why is that you can never back up anything you say? Where is your proof?

You don't have any! You are a habitual liar and a bigoted cunt.


"Jon�" <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@212.67.96.135...
: Jewish Kapo Jews who kissed Nazi arses, to gain kudos in the Nazi
: concentration camps, were always making death threats to other
inmates. Why
: should you racist Jews on Usenet be any different.?
: "Ariadne" <***@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
:
:
hummingbird
2005-10-20 13:39:56 UTC
Permalink
On 20 Oct 2005 05:37:34 -0700, "Ariadne" <***@mac.hush.com>
mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
Post by Ariadne
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
others of freedom.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Pathetic.
--
"Turkey should join the EU 'because it is a European country'"
...Jack Straw 2nd October 2005 in Luxembourg.
BBC: "only 22% of citizens across Europe want Turkey to join the EU"
Jason P
2005-10-20 18:40:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by hummingbird
mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
Post by Ariadne
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
others of freedom.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Pathetic.
Yes very... I agree.
Rifleman
2005-10-20 15:53:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
Ariadne, according to you anyone who does not dress all in black with twirly
long hair , and goes round kissing walls in Jerusalem, and whizzing chickens
around their heads or building sheds this week is anti semitic, but looking
at you I bet those 6.4 billion people are damn proud.
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-20 16:16:49 UTC
Permalink
Fuck off you nasty British NAZI pig.


"Rifleman" <***@ctinternet.co.uk> wrote in message news:dj8ei6$cjt$***@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
:
: "Ariadne" <***@mac.hush.com> wrote in message
: news:***@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: > Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information
is
:
:
: Ariadne, according to you anyone who does not dress all in black with
twirly
: long hair , and goes round kissing walls in Jerusalem, and whizzing
chickens
: around their heads or building sheds this week is anti semitic, but
looking
: at you I bet those 6.4 billion people are damn proud.
:
:
Ariadne
2005-10-20 16:49:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
Fuck off you nasty British NAZI pig.
He is so nasty someone gave him his own
group

alt.bonehead.steve-day

and I see that the evidence for those
"death threats" the other little naziboy
claimed is still lacking

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
: > Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information
is
: Ariadne, according to you anyone who does not dress all in black with
twirly
: long hair , and goes round kissing walls in Jerusalem, and whizzing
chickens
: around their heads or building sheds this week is anti semitic, but
looking
: at you I bet those 6.4 billion people are damn proud.
Jason P
2005-10-20 18:45:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
He is so nasty someone gave him his own
group
alt.bonehead.steve-day
and I see that the evidence for those
"death threats" the other little naziboy
claimed is still lacking
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
You are one twisted nasty woman..! Go to the devil!
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-20 19:28:19 UTC
Permalink
The "P" must stand for PROJECTION.


"Jason P" <***@netscape.net> wrote in message news:***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
:
:
: You are one twisted nasty woman..! Go to the devil!
:
Jason P
2005-10-20 19:45:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
The "P" must stand for PROJECTION.
: You are one twisted nasty woman..! Go to the devil!
You see your own reflection in your projection, Rain Farton.

Quit projecting your obfuscations..!

Vile oaf.
Jason P
2005-10-20 18:57:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
others of freedom.
Here we go again, Ariadne has another wild Jew ingrown hair sticking in
her asshole. Let's shed some light on her misguided Jewish darkness.


An Israeli writer on:


Anti-Semitism vs. Anti-Zionism - A Practical Manual

By Uri Avnery

Counterpunch
21 January, 2004

A Hungarian Joke: During the June 1967 war, a Hungarian meets his
friend. "Why do you look so happy?" he asks. "I heard that the Israelis
shot down six Soviet-made MiGs today," his friend replies.

The next day, the friend looks even more jubilant. "The Israelis downed
another eight MiGs," he announces.

On the third day, the friend is crestfallen. "What happened? Didn't the
Israelis down any MiGs today?" the man asks. "They did," the friend
answers, "But today someone told me that the Israelis are Jews!"

This is the whole story in a nutshell.

The Anti-Semite hates the Jews because they are Jews, irrespective of
their actions. Jews may be hated because they are rich and ostentatious
or because they are poor and live in squalor. Because they played a
major role in the Bolshevik revolution or because some of them became
incredibly rich after the collapse of the Communist regime. Because
they crucified Jesus or because they infected Western culture with the
"Christian morality of compassion". Because they have no fatherland or
because they created the State of Israel.

That is in the nature of all kinds of racism and chauvinism: One hates
someone for being a Jew, Arab, woman, black, Indian, Muslim, Hindu. His
or her personal attributes, actions, achievements are unimportant. If
he or she belongs to the abhorred race, religion or gender, they will
be hated.

The answers to all questions relating to anti-Semitism follow from this
basic fact. For example:

Is everybody who criticizes Israel an anti-Semite?

Absolutely not. Somebody who criticizes Israel for certain of our
actions cannot be accused of anti-Semitism for that. But somebody who
hates Israel because it is a Jewish state, like the Hungarian in the
joke, is an anti-Semite. It is not always easy to distinguish between
the two kinds, because shrewd anti-Semites pose as bona fide critics of
Israel's actions. But presenting all critics of Israel as anti-Semites
is wrong and counter-productive, it damages the fight against
anti-Semitism.

Many deeply moral persons, the cream of humanity, criticize our
behavior in the occupied territories. It is stupid to accuse them of
anti-Semitism.

Can a person be an anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semite?

Absolutely yes. Zionism is a political creed and must be treated like
any other. One can be anti-Communist without being anti-Chinese,
anti-Capitalist without being anti-American, anti-Globalist,
anti-Anything. Yet, again, it is not always easy to draw the line,
because real anti-Semites often pretend just to be "anti-Zionists".
They should not be helped by erasing the distinction.

Can a person be an anti-Semite and a Zionist?

Indeed, yes. The founder of modern Zionism, Theodor Herzl, already
tried to enlist the support of notorious Russian anti-Semites,
promising them to take the Jews off their hands. Before World War II,
the Zionist underground organization IZL established military training
camps in Poland under the auspices of the anti-Semitic generals, who
also wanted to get rid of the Jews. Nowadays, the Zionist extreme Right
receives and welcomes massive support from the American fundamentalist
evangelists, whom the majority of American Jews, according to a poll
published this week, consider profoundly anti-Semitic. Their theology
prophesies that on the eve of the second coming of Christ, all Jews
must convert to Christianity or be exterminated.

Can a Jew be anti-Semitic?

That sounds like an oxymoron. But history has known some instances of
Jews who became ferocious Jew-haters. The Spanish Grand Inquisitor,
Torquemada, was of Jewish descent. Karl Marx wrote some very nasty
things about the Jews, as did Otto Weininger, an important Jewish
writer in fin-de-siecle Vienna. Herzl, his contemporary and
fellow-Viennese, wrote in his diaries some very uncomplimentary remarks
about the Jews.

If a person criticizes Israel more than other countries which do the
same, is he an anti-Semite?

Not necessarily. True, there should be one and the same moral standard
for all countries and all human beings. Russian actions in Chechnya are
not better than ours in Nablus, and may be worse. The trouble is that
the Jews are pictured and picture themselves (and indeed were) a
"nation of victims". Therefore, the world is shocked that yesterday's
victims are today's victimizers. A higher moral standard is required
from us than from other peoples. And rightly so.

Has Europe become anti-Semitic again?

Not really. The number of anti-Semites in Europe has not grown, perhaps
it has even fallen. What has increased is the volume of criticism of
Israel's behavior towards the Palestinians, who appear as "the victims
of the victims".

The situation in some suburbs of Paris, which is often cited as an
example of the rise of anti-Semitism, is a quite different affair. When
North African Muslims clash with North African Jews, they are
transferring the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to European soil. It is
also a continuation of the feud between Arabs and Jews that started in
Algeria when the Jews supported the French regime and Muslims
considered them collaborators of the hated colonialists.

Then why did most Europeans state in a recent poll that Israel
endangers world peace more than any other country?

That has a simple explanation: Europeans see on television every day
what our soldiers are doing in the occupied Palestinian territories.
This confrontation is covered more than any other conflict on earth
(with the possible exception of Iraq, for the time being), because
Israel is more "interesting", considering the long history of the Jews
in Europe and because Israel is closer to the Western media than Muslim
or African countries. The Palestinian resistance, which Israelis call
"terrorism", seems to many Europeans very much like the French
resistance to the German occupation.

What about the anti-Semitic manifestations in the Arab world?

No doubt, typically anti-Semitic indications have crept lately into
Arab discourse. Suffice it to mention that the infamous "Protocols of
the Elders of Zion" have been published in Arabic. That is a typically
European import. The Protocols were invented by the secret police of
Czarist Russia.

Whatever inanities may be voiced by certain "experts", there never was
any widespread Muslim anti-Semitism, such as existed in Christian
Europe. In the course of his fight for power, the prophet Muhammad
fought against neighboring Jewish tribes, and therefore there are some
negative passages about the Jews in the Kor'an. But they cannot be
compared to the anti-Jewish passages in the New Testament story about
the crucifixion of Christ that have poisoned the Christian world and
caused endless suffering. Muslim Spain was a paradise for the Jews, and
there has never been a Jewish Holocaust in the Muslim world. Even
pogroms were extremely rare.

Muhammad decreed that the "Peoples of the Book" (Jews and Christians)
be treated tolerantly, subject to conditions that were incomparably
more liberal than those in contemporary Europe. The Muslims never
imposed their religion by force on Jews and Christians, as shown by the
fact that almost all the Jews expelled from Catholic Spain settled in
the Muslim countries and flourished there. After centuries of Muslim
rule, Greeks and Serbs remained thoroughly Christian.

When peace is established between Israel and the Arab world, the
poisonous fruits of anti-Semitism will most probably disappear from the
Arab world (as will the poisonous fruits of Arab-hating in our
society.)

Aren't the utterances of the Prime Minister of Malaysia, Mahathir bin
Muhammad, about the Jews controlling the world, anti-Semitic?

Yes and no. They certainly illustrate the difficulty of pinning
anti-Semitism down. From a factual point of view, the man was right
when he asserted that the Jews have a far bigger influence than their
percentage of the world's population alone would warrant. It is true
that the Jews have a large influence on the policy of the United
States, the only super-power, as well as on the American and
international media. One does not need the phony "Protocols" in order
to face this fact and analyse its causes. But the sounds make the
music, and Mahathir's music does indeed sound anti-Semitic.

So should we ignore anti-Semitism?

Definitely not. Racism is a kind of virus that exists in every nation
and in every human being. Jean-Paul Sartre said that we are all
racists, the difference being that some of us realize this and fight
against it, while others succumb to the evil. In ordinary times, there
is a small minority of blatant racists in every country, but in times
of crisis their number can multiply rapidly. This is a perpetual
danger, and every people must fight against the racists in their midst.

We Israelis are like all other peoples. Each of us can find a small
racist within himself, if he searches hard enough. We have in our
country fanatical Arab-haters, and the historic confrontation that
dominates our lives increases their power and influence. It is our duty
to fight them, and leave it to the Europeans and Arabs to deal with
their own racists.

Uri Avnery is an Israeli writer and peace activist with Gush Shalom.
Rifleman
2005-10-20 19:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Remember that Frau Ariadne likes to refer to Palestinians as Sub Human, she
gloats over the misery Israel inflicts on them all in an efort to attack a
criminal minority.
Jason P
2005-10-20 19:18:16 UTC
Permalink
The only sub-human in the equation here is Ariadne..! :)
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-20 19:42:53 UTC
Permalink
Wrong as per usual.

You and your NAZI cohorts are the subhumans.


"Jason P" <***@netscape.net> wrote in message news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
: The only sub-human in the equation here is Ariadne..! :)
:
Rifleman
2005-10-20 20:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
Wrong as per usual.
You and your NAZI cohorts are the subhumans.
Odd isnt how fascists and extremists resort to calling people subhuman, how
utterly racist
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-20 19:42:26 UTC
Permalink
You and your NAZI pigs are the subhumans.



"Rifleman" <***@ctinternet.co.uk> wrote in message news:dj8q2a$4n1$***@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
:
: Remember that Frau Ariadne likes to refer to Palestinians as Sub
Human, she
: gloats over the misery Israel inflicts on them all in an efort to
attack a
: criminal minority.
:
:
Ariadne
2005-10-20 21:01:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
You and your NAZI pigs are the subhumans.
Subhuman _liars_, to boot !

This little Nazi Treifleman has been given his
own group

alt.bonehead.steve-day

He hates so many different kinds of people.

He is unacceptable to USA and not acceptable
to very many people here.
Jason P
2005-10-21 00:30:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rifleman
Remember that Frau Ariadne likes to refer to Palestinians as Sub Human, she
gloats over the misery Israel inflicts on them all in an efort to attack a
criminal minority.
Re: øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton, using a Bellsouth account

Riain Y. Barton
Savannah, GA USA 31401-7311

telephone 912-231-8893

University of South Carolina -- Bachelor of Science (doubtful)
Beaufort, SC USA

Other e-mail address <riain912[at] yahoo.com> and <riain[at] riain.us>

Also lived in:

Thurles, County Tipperary Ireland, and Jerusalem, Israel

Check out..

http://tinyurl.com/a2oaj (this may not work for it's 'permissions'
dependent)

http://tinyurl.com/8v27h -- Al-Jazeerah's site
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-21 04:14:35 UTC
Permalink
Did you have a point, you stupid little NAZI fuck?

You haven't posted one thing new, nor anything that people do not
already know.

I have never tried to hide my identity, nor my location, or anything
else about my life, unlike your anonymous cowardly SELF.
Post by Rifleman
Remember that Frau Ariadne likes to refer to Palestinians as Sub Human, she
gloats over the misery Israel inflicts on them all in an efort to attack a
criminal minority.
Re: øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton, using a Bellsouth account

Riain Y. Barton
Savannah, GA USA 31401-7311

telephone 912-231-8893

University of South Carolina -- Bachelor of Science (doubtful)
Beaufort, SC USA

Other e-mail address <riain912[at] yahoo.com> and <riain[at] riain.us>

Also lived in:

Thurles, County Tipperary Ireland, and Jerusalem, Israel

Check out..

http://tinyurl.com/a2oaj (this may not work for it's 'permissions'
dependent)

http://tinyurl.com/8v27h -- Al-Jazeerah's site
Ariadne
2005-10-22 21:09:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
Did you have a point, you stupid little NAZI fuck?
You haven't posted one thing new, nor anything that people do not
already know.
I have never tried to hide my identity, nor my location, or anything
else about my life, unlike your anonymous cowardly SELF.
"Jason P"
He is another sewer-dweller spreading his
poisons around.

Mentally afflicted.

But other little sewer dwellers are running off
with little nuggets of his his filth.

I am still waiting for the evidence of those
"death threats" Arafat X of the BNP claims
were made against him.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-21 04:15:38 UTC
Permalink
report id 1535639799 sent to: groups-***@google.comPath:
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From: "Jason P" <***@netscape.net>
Newsgroups:
uk.politics.misc,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british
Subject: Re: Let's list the "DEATH THREATS" Chris X of the BNP has
received on Usenet !
Date: 20 Oct 2005 17:30:49 -0700
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Post by Rifleman
Remember that Frau Ariadne likes to refer to Palestinians as Sub Human, she
gloats over the misery Israel inflicts on them all in an efort to attack a
criminal minority.
Re: øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton, using a Bellsouth account

Riain Y. Barton
Savannah, GA USA 31401-7311

telephone 912-231-8893

University of South Carolina -- Bachelor of Science (doubtful)
Beaufort, SC USA

Other e-mail address <riain912[at] yahoo.com> and <riain[at] riain.us>

Also lived in:

Thurles, County Tipperary Ireland, and Jerusalem, Israel

Check out..

http://tinyurl.com/a2oaj (this may not work for it's 'permissions'
dependent)

http://tinyurl.com/8v27h -- Al-Jazeerah's site
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-21 04:33:09 UTC
Permalink
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/IslME_62/4572-62.htm

a.. The scheduled speakers promote varying degrees of hostility toward
Israel. They include Charles E. Carlson, co-founder of We Hold These
Truths, a notorious Arizona-based extremist group that focuses on
propagating anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. (As of October 11,
Carlson's name and workshop have been removed from the Web site and it
is unclear if he will still appear at the conference.)
Post by Rifleman
Remember that Frau Ariadne likes to refer to Palestinians as Sub Human, she
gloats over the misery Israel inflicts on them all in an efort to attack a
criminal minority.
Re: øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton, using a Bellsouth account

Riain Y. Barton
Savannah, GA USA 31401-7311

telephone 912-231-8893

University of South Carolina -- Bachelor of Science (doubtful)
Beaufort, SC USA

Other e-mail address <riain912[at] yahoo.com> and <riain[at] riain.us>

Also lived in:

Thurles, County Tipperary Ireland, and Jerusalem, Israel

Check out..

http://tinyurl.com/a2oaj (this may not work for it's 'permissions'
dependent)

http://tinyurl.com/8v27h -- Al-Jazeerah's site
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-20 19:31:28 UTC
Permalink
Let's do shed some light you ignorant Jew-hating cunt.

http://www.shoebat.com

Born in Bethlehem of Judea, Walid's grandfather was the Muslim Mukhtar
(chieftain) of Beit Sahour-Bethlehem (The Shepherd's Fields) and a
friend of Haj-Ameen Al-Husseni, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and
notorious friend of Adolf Hitler.

Walid's great grandfather, Abdullah Ali Awad-Allah, was also a fighter
and close associate of both Abdul Qader and Haj Amin Al-Husseini, who
led the Palestinians against Israel. Walid lived through and witnessed
Israel’s Six Day War while living in Jericho.

As a young man, he became a member of the Palestinian Liberation
Organization, and participated in acts of terror and violence against
Israel, and was later imprisoned in the Russian Compound, Jerusalem's
central prison for incitement and violence against Israel.

After his release, he continued his life of violence and rioting in
Bethlehem and the Temple Mount. After entering the U.S, he worked as a
counselor for the Arab Student Organization at Loop College in Chicago
and continued his anti-Israel activities.

In 1993, Walid studied the Tanach (Jewish Bible) in a challenge to
convert his wife to Islam. Six months later, after intense study, Walid
realized that everything he had been taught about Jews was a lie.
Convinced he was on the side of evil, he became an advocate for his
former enemy.

Driven by a deep passion to heal his own soul, and to bring the truth
about the Jews and Israel to the world, Walid shed his former life and
his work as a software engineer and set out to tirelessly bring the
cause of Israel to tens of thousands of people throughout the world:
churches and synagogues, civic groups, government leaders and media.

Walid has written several online books including "Dear Muslim, Let Me
Tell You Why I Believed" and "Israel, And The World's Mock Trial”, where
he exposes anti-Semitism and the hatred of Jews in both the Islamic
Christian and secular worlds.

Walid is an American citizen and lives in the USA with his wife and
children, under this assumed name.


"Jason P" <***@netscape.net> wrote in message news:***@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
:
: Ariadne wrote:
: > Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information
is
: > posted to:
: >
: > uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
: > soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
: >
: > The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
: > in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
: >
: > His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
: > does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
: > who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
: > others of freedom.
: >
:
:
: Here we go again, Ariadne has another wild Jew ingrown hair sticking
in
: her asshole. Let's shed some light on her misguided Jewish darkness.
:
:
: An Israeli writer on:
:
:
: Anti-Semitism vs. Anti-Zionism - A Practical Manual
:
: By Uri Avnery
Jason P
2005-10-20 19:23:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
others of freedom.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
An Irsraeli speaks out on the politics of the Likus party and Sharon's
defeat of Netanyahu.


The [Jewish/Israeli] Gladiators

By Uri Avnery

02 October, 2005
Gush Shalom

The contest between Binyamin Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon in the Likud
Central Committee resembled a duel between two gladiators in the Roman
arena. The more so since many of the Committee members behaved like the
Roman rabble who screamed, rioted and demanded blood.

In this fight, Netanyahu resembled the Retiarius, a gladiator who had
nothing on but a short tunic and who sought to entangle his opponent
with a cast-net held in his right hand and, if successful, to dispatch
him with the trident that he carried in his left. Sharon was like the
Secutor, who wore armor and carried a sword. The former had the
advantage of mobility and agility, the other moved clumsily but was
well protected.

Many heaved a sigh of relief when Netanyahu was defeated at the last
minute, contrary to expectations and polls. Since Netanyahu had
positioned himself on the extreme right, supporting the settlers and
opposing any withdrawal, he made Sharon look like the Man of Peace. But
that is, of course, an illusion. The difference between the two, if
there is one at all, is negligible. If Netanyahu were Prime Minister,
he would behave exactly like Sharon, and in opposition Sharon would
behave exactly like Netanyahu.

Sharon is now making both peace-loving and war-like declarations -
depending on the audience he is addressing. Before the UN General
Assembly and the Americans he sings hymns to peace, but he vows to the
Likud that he will not give up another inch. All these declarations are
not worth a garlic peeling, to use a Hebrew expression. One should not
believe a word he says, only his actions count. In the meantime he
builds the Separation Fence, enlarges the settlements, initiates
provocations, bombs and arrests.

On the face of it, therefore, nothing that has happened in the Likud
Central Committee has any impact on the chances of peace. Just a duel
between two gladiators in the arena, much ado about nothing. But that
is an optical illusion. [...]

The Likud is the present incarnation of the Revisionist Party, which
was founded some 80 years ago under the slogan "The Jordan has two
banks - one belongs to us and the other one too." Its very name
reflects this claim. The founder, Vladimir (Ze'ev) Jabotinsky wanted to
annul the 1920 decision of the British government to separate
Transjordan (the present Kingdom of Jordan) from Palestine. That was
the "revision" he strove to attain.

Even when the party, in its successive incarnations, in practice gave
up the claim on Transjordan, it insisted vigorously on "The Whole of
Eretz-Israel" between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River. In order
to achieve this, it promoted the settlements in all the occupied
territories, denied the very existence of the Palestinian people and
obstructed every step that could have led towards peace.

And now, on Monday, September 26, 2005, the Central Committee of this
party has voted for a leader who evacuated and destroyed 25
settlements, has used the Israel Defense Forces to "drive out Jews" and
has officially given up a part of Eretz Israel. From this day on, the
Likud is not what it used to be.

Some people make light of this victory because of the tiny margin - 52%
against 48%. But that is not important. The astounding thing is that
any committee members at all voted for the man who did this.

It is being said that this decision was not ideological, but
jobological. The committee members voted against their convictions in
order keep the Likud in power and save their government jobs. The polls
have shown that the Likud would lose the elections if Sharon were
thrown out. The head overcame the heart, the greed for power was
stronger than the ideology.

If that is true, the victory is even more important. The 3060 members
of the Likud Central Committee come from all parts of Israel. They come
from all social strata, not just from the "elites". They sense the mood
of the general public. If they have arrived at the conclusion that
loyalty to the settlements and Greater Israel will lose them the
elections, this has far-reaching significance.

I wrote recently that "the center has held". Now it is also clear that
the right wing has remained loyal to Sharon. His opponents, the
Loyalists of Greater Israel, are in a state of collapse. After their
rout in the Central Committee, they are foundering among the 100,000
party members. Polls show that a large majority of these now support
Sharon. The Likud ministers and Knesset members behave like soldiers of
a defeated army after the cry "sauve qui peut" is sounded.

That is not the end of it. On the contrary, we are facing a hard year.
Sharon will try to freeze everything, except the building of the Fence
and the enlarging of the settlements. The pretext will be the need to
wait for the results of the Palestinian elections, in January 2006, in
order to know "with whom we are dealing". After that, the Israeli
election will take place, probably in November 2006, and "nobody can
expect Sharon to take unpopular steps before elections". President
Bush, who is also a political animal, will surely understand that. The
prolonged freeze may cause new disasters.

In spite of this, the long march towards peace has taken another step.
A small step, but an important one.

And that in the Likud Central Committee, of all places. Who would have
believed it.
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-20 19:56:10 UTC
Permalink
The Poster Girl of the Israeli Left
By Steven Plaut
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 17, 2004

Israelis this week are expressing shock and astonishment over the arrest
of a Jewish leftist woman from Tel Aviv for collaboration with one of
the worst Palestinian terrorists and murderers still above ground.

Twenty-nine year-old Tali Fahima, a Jewish "peace activist" from Tel
Aviv, was arrested on suspicion of planning terrorist attacks against
Jewish targets and aiding arch-terrorist Zakaria Zubeidi, her
Palestinian "lover" from Jenin.

But Israelis should be neither shocked nor surprised.

Fahima had been a long-time activist in Israel's pro-Palestinian
anti-Israel left. Along with the rest of her comrades, she frequently
demonstrated for "peace" and against Israeli "oppression" and
"occupation" of Palestinians. And like the rest of her comrades, the
real "rights of the Palestinians" she was interested in defending were
their rights to conduct mass murder and genocide against Jews. Her
"alliance", one between a Jewish leftist and a Palestinian terrorist,
is symbolic of the broader alliance between the anti-Semitic Jewish
left and Islamist fascism, the real "axis of evil" currently endangering
Israeli survival.

Fahima's arrest will come as a shock only for those who have been
blissfully ignorant of the nature and the agenda of Israel's radical
left over the past two decades. In reality, just like the American
campus left has long been little more than a movement of
anti-Americanism, so Israel's far left is
today, even more so, nothing more than a movement of anti-Israelism and
Jewish self-hatred. They denounce Israel as an apartheid country,
whereas in reality Israel is the only country in the Middle East that is
NOT one. They seek the destruction of their own country and are willing
to see as many Jews murdered as it takes to end this "Zionist
abomination".

For two decades, Israel's leftists, led by the academic extremists and
tenured traitors from Israeli universities, have served as attack dogs
against their own country. Like Taliban John and the handful of other
American-born terrorists, they regard their own country as the
embodiment of all that is evil. They justify Palestinian terror and
atrocities (and also support the Iraqi "resistance" against the United
States and Britain), while denouncing every effort by Israel to defend
it civilians as "state terrorism" and barbarism. The only form of
Israeli resistance against terror they are willing to countenance is
total capitulation to Arab fascism.

Israeli leftists today serve as the Jews-for-hire, as the Israel-bashing
court jesters for every anti-Semitic and Israel-hating organization,
magazine and web site on earth. The anti-Semites never tire of the rush
and thrill of seeing yet another Jewish leftist willing to declare from
their podium that all the problems of the planet are the Jews' fault,
that the Jewish Israelis are evil and greedy and racist, that Israel is
an aggressor and the obstacle to peace, and that Arab atrocities and
violence are the understandable response of "oppressed" Arabs to Jewish
bullying.

The Israeli left has produced its own school of historic revisionists,
the "New Historians", who have rewritten history and distorted truth in
order to advance the cause of Arab aggression and Islamofascism. These
Jewish leftist pseudo-historians are the moral equivalent of Holocaust
deniers in other countries. Academic standards have been junked and far
leftist faculty members hired and promoted as acts of solidarity by
other leftists within the university system.

Faculty members at Israeli universities routinely denounce their own
country as a racist, fascist anomaly. Some openly call for the end of
Israel's existence and for their country to be replaced by a
Palestinian-majority, Middle East PLO-led state, covering all of Israel
and the "occupied territories". If such a state was to come into
existence, a second Holocaust of Jews would quickly follow and Jewish
history would likely end.

A sociologist at Ben-Gurion University recently made headlines for
publishing an article in anti-Israel European newspapers denouncing
Israel for implementing "symbolic genocide" in the form of assassinating
Palestinian terror leaders. (Had Jews managed to assassinate Hitler in
1943, they would have been guilty of genocide against Germans, according
to this "academic thinker".) The articles of a political science
colleague at Ben-Gurion University appear on neonazi and Holocaust
denial web sites, including the one run by convicted Nazi Ernst Zundel;
and this "academic" routinely denounces Israel as a Nazi, Fascist,
terrorist country.

For the past two decades, the loyalty of Israel's radical leftists has
been pledged to the enemies of their own country. Their mantra has
effectively been: "The enemies of my country, right or wrong!" Tali
Fahima is not the first traitor and collaborator with terror to emerge
from the Israeli far left. A terror and espionage ring broken up by
arrests in the 1970s featured two Jewish leftists, one an ex-kibbutznik.
Mordecai Vanunu, a communist graduate of Ben-Gurion University recently
released from prison after serving a long term for nuclear espionage,
has long been the guru and role model for Israel's radical left. A few
other Israeli Jews have been arrested for collaborating and assisting
terrorists.

Tali Fahima personally symbolizes everything that went wrong with
Israel's left in the past two decades, during which treason largely
replaced protest and dissidence as the radicals' driving motive. Like
Taliban John's capture, her arrest should serve as an ominous wakeup
call and siren warning about the dangers from leftist radicalism
everywhere.



"Jason P" <***@netscape.net> wrote in message news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
:
: Ariadne wrote:
: > Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information
is
: > posted to:
: >
: > uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
: > soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
: >
: > The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
: > in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
: >
: > His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
: > does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
: > who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
: > others of freedom.
: >
: > 1.
: > 2.
: > 3.
: > 4.
: > 5.
:
:
:
: An Irsraeli speaks out on the politics of the Likus party and Sharon's
: defeat of Netanyahu.
:
:
: The [Jewish/Israeli] Gladiators
:
: By Uri Avnery
:
: 02 October, 2005
: Gush Shalom
:
: The contest between Binyamin Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon in the Likud
: Central Committee resembled a duel between two gladiators in the Roman
: arena. The more so since many of the Committee members behaved like
the
: Roman rabble who screamed, rioted and demanded blood.
:
: In this fight, Netanyahu resembled the Retiarius, a gladiator who had
: nothing on but a short tunic and who sought to entangle his opponent
: with a cast-net held in his right hand and, if successful, to dispatch
: him with the trident that he carried in his left. Sharon was like the
: Secutor, who wore armor and carried a sword. The former had the
: advantage of mobility and agility, the other moved clumsily but was
: well protected.
:
: Many heaved a sigh of relief when Netanyahu was defeated at the last
: minute, contrary to expectations and polls. Since Netanyahu had
: positioned himself on the extreme right, supporting the settlers and
: opposing any withdrawal, he made Sharon look like the Man of Peace.
But
: that is, of course, an illusion. The difference between the two, if
: there is one at all, is negligible. If Netanyahu were Prime Minister,
: he would behave exactly like Sharon, and in opposition Sharon would
: behave exactly like Netanyahu.
:
: Sharon is now making both peace-loving and war-like declarations -
: depending on the audience he is addressing. Before the UN General
: Assembly and the Americans he sings hymns to peace, but he vows to the
: Likud that he will not give up another inch. All these declarations
are
: not worth a garlic peeling, to use a Hebrew expression. One should not
: believe a word he says, only his actions count. In the meantime he
: builds the Separation Fence, enlarges the settlements, initiates
: provocations, bombs and arrests.
:
: On the face of it, therefore, nothing that has happened in the Likud
: Central Committee has any impact on the chances of peace. Just a duel
: between two gladiators in the arena, much ado about nothing. But that
: is an optical illusion. [...]
:
: The Likud is the present incarnation of the Revisionist Party, which
: was founded some 80 years ago under the slogan "The Jordan has two
: banks - one belongs to us and the other one too." Its very name
: reflects this claim. The founder, Vladimir (Ze'ev) Jabotinsky wanted
to
: annul the 1920 decision of the British government to separate
: Transjordan (the present Kingdom of Jordan) from Palestine. That was
: the "revision" he strove to attain.
:
: Even when the party, in its successive incarnations, in practice gave
: up the claim on Transjordan, it insisted vigorously on "The Whole of
: Eretz-Israel" between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River. In order
: to achieve this, it promoted the settlements in all the occupied
: territories, denied the very existence of the Palestinian people and
: obstructed every step that could have led towards peace.
:
: And now, on Monday, September 26, 2005, the Central Committee of this
: party has voted for a leader who evacuated and destroyed 25
: settlements, has used the Israel Defense Forces to "drive out Jews"
and
: has officially given up a part of Eretz Israel. From this day on, the
: Likud is not what it used to be.
:
: Some people make light of this victory because of the tiny margin -
52%
: against 48%. But that is not important. The astounding thing is that
: any committee members at all voted for the man who did this.
:
: It is being said that this decision was not ideological, but
: jobological. The committee members voted against their convictions in
: order keep the Likud in power and save their government jobs. The
polls
: have shown that the Likud would lose the elections if Sharon were
: thrown out. The head overcame the heart, the greed for power was
: stronger than the ideology.
:
: If that is true, the victory is even more important. The 3060 members
: of the Likud Central Committee come from all parts of Israel. They
come
: from all social strata, not just from the "elites". They sense the
mood
: of the general public. If they have arrived at the conclusion that
: loyalty to the settlements and Greater Israel will lose them the
: elections, this has far-reaching significance.
:
: I wrote recently that "the center has held". Now it is also clear that
: the right wing has remained loyal to Sharon. His opponents, the
: Loyalists of Greater Israel, are in a state of collapse. After their
: rout in the Central Committee, they are foundering among the 100,000
: party members. Polls show that a large majority of these now support
: Sharon. The Likud ministers and Knesset members behave like soldiers
of
: a defeated army after the cry "sauve qui peut" is sounded.
:
: That is not the end of it. On the contrary, we are facing a hard year.
: Sharon will try to freeze everything, except the building of the Fence
: and the enlarging of the settlements. The pretext will be the need to
: wait for the results of the Palestinian elections, in January 2006, in
: order to know "with whom we are dealing". After that, the Israeli
: election will take place, probably in November 2006, and "nobody can
: expect Sharon to take unpopular steps before elections". President
: Bush, who is also a political animal, will surely understand that. The
: prolonged freeze may cause new disasters.
:
: In spite of this, the long march towards peace has taken another step.
: A small step, but an important one.
:
: And that in the Likud Central Committee, of all places. Who would have
: believed it.
:
Ariadne
2005-10-20 20:08:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
The Poster Girl of the Israeli Left
By Steven Plaut
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 17, 2004
Israelis this week are expressing shock and astonishment over the arrest
of a Jewish leftist woman from Tel Aviv for collaboration with one of
the worst Palestinian terrorists and murderers still above ground.
Twenty-nine year-old Tali Fahima, a Jewish "peace activist" from Tel
Aviv, was arrested on suspicion of planning terrorist attacks against
Jewish targets and aiding arch-terrorist Zakaria Zubeidi, her
Palestinian "lover" from Jenin.
But Israelis should be neither shocked nor surprised.
Fahima had been a long-time activist in Israel's pro-Palestinian
anti-Israel left. Along with the rest of her comrades, she frequently
demonstrated for "peace" and against Israeli "oppression" and
"occupation" of Palestinians. And like the rest of her comrades, the
real "rights of the Palestinians" she was interested in defending were
their rights to conduct mass murder and genocide against Jews. Her
"alliance", one between a Jewish leftist and a Palestinian terrorist,
is symbolic of the broader alliance between the anti-Semitic Jewish
left and Islamist fascism, the real "axis of evil" currently endangering
Israeli survival.
Fahima's arrest will come as a shock only for those who have been
blissfully ignorant of the nature and the agenda of Israel's radical
left over the past two decades. In reality, just like the American
campus left has long been little more than a movement of
anti-Americanism, so Israel's far left is
today, even more so, nothing more than a movement of anti-Israelism and
Jewish self-hatred. They denounce Israel as an apartheid country,
whereas in reality Israel is the only country in the Middle East that is
NOT one. They seek the destruction of their own country and are willing
to see as many Jews murdered as it takes to end this "Zionist
abomination".
For two decades, Israel's leftists, led by the academic extremists and
tenured traitors from Israeli universities, have served as attack dogs
against their own country. Like Taliban John and the handful of other
American-born terrorists, they regard their own country as the
embodiment of all that is evil. They justify Palestinian terror and
atrocities (and also support the Iraqi "resistance" against the United
States and Britain), while denouncing every effort by Israel to defend
it civilians as "state terrorism" and barbarism. The only form of
Israeli resistance against terror they are willing to countenance is
total capitulation to Arab fascism.
Israeli leftists today serve as the Jews-for-hire, as the Israel-bashing
court jesters for every anti-Semitic and Israel-hating organization,
magazine and web site on earth. The anti-Semites never tire of the rush
and thrill of seeing yet another Jewish leftist willing to declare from
their podium that all the problems of the planet are the Jews' fault,
that the Jewish Israelis are evil and greedy and racist, that Israel is
an aggressor and the obstacle to peace, and that Arab atrocities and
violence are the understandable response of "oppressed" Arabs to Jewish
bullying.
The Israeli left has produced its own school of historic revisionists,
the "New Historians", who have rewritten history and distorted truth in
order to advance the cause of Arab aggression and Islamofascism. These
Jewish leftist pseudo-historians are the moral equivalent of Holocaust
deniers in other countries. Academic standards have been junked and far
leftist faculty members hired and promoted as acts of solidarity by
other leftists within the university system.
Faculty members at Israeli universities routinely denounce their own
country as a racist, fascist anomaly. Some openly call for the end of
Israel's existence and for their country to be replaced by a
Palestinian-majority, Middle East PLO-led state, covering all of Israel
and the "occupied territories". If such a state was to come into
existence, a second Holocaust of Jews would quickly follow and Jewish
history would likely end.
A sociologist at Ben-Gurion University recently made headlines for
publishing an article in anti-Israel European newspapers denouncing
Israel for implementing "symbolic genocide" in the form of assassinating
Palestinian terror leaders. (Had Jews managed to assassinate Hitler in
1943, they would have been guilty of genocide against Germans, according
to this "academic thinker".) The articles of a political science
colleague at Ben-Gurion University appear on neonazi and Holocaust
denial web sites, including the one run by convicted Nazi Ernst Zundel;
and this "academic" routinely denounces Israel as a Nazi, Fascist,
terrorist country.
For the past two decades, the loyalty of Israel's radical leftists has
been pledged to the enemies of their own country. Their mantra has
effectively been: "The enemies of my country, right or wrong!" Tali
Fahima is not the first traitor and collaborator with terror to emerge
from the Israeli far left. A terror and espionage ring broken up by
arrests in the 1970s featured two Jewish leftists, one an ex-kibbutznik.
Mordecai Vanunu, a communist graduate of Ben-Gurion University recently
released from prison after serving a long term for nuclear espionage,
has long been the guru and role model for Israel's radical left. A few
other Israeli Jews have been arrested for collaborating and assisting
terrorists.
Tali Fahima personally symbolizes everything that went wrong with
Israel's left in the past two decades, during which treason largely
replaced protest and dissidence as the radicals' driving motive. Like
Taliban John's capture, her arrest should serve as an ominous wakeup
call and siren warning about the dangers from leftist radicalism
everywhere.
I just had a look at masada2000's S.H.I.T.LIST since
Avnery must be on it.

It has changed:

http://www.masada2000.org/shit-list.html

I see that the evidence of "death threats"
against Chavdullah are still lacking.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Is there anything the antisemites _don't_ lie about?
Rifleman
2005-10-20 20:17:08 UTC
Permalink
"Ariadne" <***@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message news:***@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
. Like
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
Taliban John's capture, her arrest should serve as an ominous wakeup
call and siren warning about the dangers from leftist radicalism
everywhere.
See what I mean about getting into be with the lefties, The far right are a
very very small unimportant group that wont gain real power, but the left
who despise all religions are a far greater threat to Jews and Gentiles.
Jason P
2005-10-20 19:32:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
others of freedom.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Who Murdered Arafat? [and Israeli writer speaks his mind]

By Uri Avnery

13 September, 2005
Gush Shalom

[...] Most of the doctors interviewed by Haaretz testified that the
symptoms point towards poisoning, and, in fact, are incompatible with
any other cause. The report of the French doctors, who treated Arafat
during the last two weeks of his life, states that no known cause for
his death was discovered. True, the tests did not find any traces of
poison in his body - but the tests were conducted only for the usual
poisons. It is no secret that many intelligence services in the world
have developed poisons that cannot be detected at all, or whose traces
disappear in a very short time.

Some years ago, Israeli agents poisoned the Hamas chief Khaled Mash'al
with a slight prick in a main street of Amman. His life was saved only
because King Hussein demanded that Israel immediately provide the
antidote. (As a further indemnity, Binyamin Netanyahu agreed to the
release from prison of another Hamas chief, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, who was
assassinated several years after his return to Gaza by more
conventional means - an airborne missile.)

In the absence of symptoms of any known disease, and since clear
indications of poisoning were present, the highest probability is that
Yasser Arafat was indeed poisoned while having dinner four hours before
the first symptoms appeared.

I can testify that the security arrangements around the Ra'is were very
lax. At each of my dozens of meetings with him in different countries I
was always amazed at the ease with which a potential assassin could
have done his job. Protection was always casual, especially compared to
the way Israeli Prime Ministers are guarded. He often had his meals in
the company of strangers, he embraced his visitors. Associates report
that he frequently accepted sweets from strangers and also took
medicines from visitors, swallowing them on the spot. After surviving
dozens of assassination attempts, and even an airplane accident, he had
come to adopt a fatalistic attitude, "it's all in the hands of Allah".
I think that in his heart of hearts he really believed that Allah would
preserve him until the completion of his historic mission.

If he was poisoned - by whom was he poisoned?

First suspicion falls, of course, on the Israeli security
establishment. Indeed, Ariel Sharon declared on several occasions that
he intended to kill him. The subject came up in cabinet meetings. Twice
during the last years my friends and I were so convinced that this was
imminent, that we went to the Mukata'ah in Ramallah to serve as a
"human shield" for him. We were convinced that the murder of Arafat
would cause much harm to Israel. In one of his interviews, Sharon
stated that our presence there had prevented his liquidation.

Truth is that Sharon abstained from killing Arafat mostly because the
Americans forbade it. They were afraid that the murder would arouse a
huge storm in the Arab world and exacerbate anti-American terrorism.
But this interdiction may have applied only to an overt act.

The Mash'al affair proves that the Israeli intelligence services have
the means to poison people without leaving any trace. The poisoning was
discovered only because the perpetrators were caught in flagrante.

However, a probability, high as it may be, is not proof. At the moment,
there is no proof that Arafat was indeed poisoned by the Israeli
services.

But if not the Israelis, who? The US intelligence services also have
the necessary capabilities. President Bush never hid his hatred for
Arafat, an obstinate leader who did not submit to his dictates. He was
quick to embrace Mahmoud Abbas. Even now, American emissaries who visit
the Mukata'ah pointedly abstain from putting wreaths on the grave of
the Ra'is in the courtyard.

But American interests, too, do not constitute proof. One can think of
several other suspects, even in the Arab world.

Did Arafat's death benefit Sharon?

On the face of it, no. As long as Arafat was alive, American support
for Israel was unlimited. But since his death, President Bush has been
going out of his way to support his successor. The dismal American
debacle in Iraq compels Bush to look for achievements elsewhere in the
"Broader Middle East". He presents Mahmoud Abbas as a symbol of the new
winds blowing through the Arab and Muslim world as a result of American
policy. In order to convince the Palestinian public to support Abbas,
Bush is putting pressure on Sharon of a new sort. Perhaps Sharon is
secretly longing for the good old days of Arafat, when life was simple
and an enemy dressed the part.

But a person who wants - as Sharon surely does - to break the
Palestinian people into pieces and prevent at any cost the
establishment of a viable State of Palestine, can only be happy with
the demise of Arafat, who united the entire Palestinian people. He had
the moral authority to impose order, and he enforced it by empathy and
force, human wisdom and tricks, threats and seduction.

There are many people in Israel who hoped that without him the
Palestinian society would break apart, that anarchy would destroy its
very foundations, that armed factions would kill each other and the
national leadership. They are certainly glad that Arafat is dead and
pray for the failure of Mahmoud Abbas.

Arafat assured me once that we would both see peace in our lifetime. He
was prevented from seeing the day. He who caused this - whoever he is -
has sinned not only against the Palestinian people, but also against
peace, and therefore against Israel.
Jason P
2005-10-20 19:39:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
others of freedom.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Sharon Has Won

By Benjamin Granby

21 August, 2005
Counterpunch


Ramallah.

All eyes are on Gaza. What the late Labor Minister Yisrael Galili in
1971 termed a great experiment in "Zionist socialism" is coming to an
end with the evacuation of some 8000 Israeli settlers and their
supporters from the occupied Gaza Strip. News channels, Arabian based
ones, are transfixed in what seems to be a tumultuous struggle between
Israel's fundamentalist right-wing and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's
apparent pragmatic plan. Others instead argue that the real struggle is
only going to emerge later when it remains to be seen if the
Palestinian Authority (PA) can maintain control over its newly
liberated areas in the most desolate and desperate corner of the
Palestinian Territories. The reality, however, is that Sharon has
already won, regardless of the outcome.

When Ariel Sharon announced his "Disengagement Plan" in early 2004 he
stunned not only Israeli society but also the world community as well.
The "Father of the Settlements" who had so shied away from peace
negotiations during the first four years of the Intifada was now making
a bold unilateral move. The term for "disengagement" in Hebrew,
Hitnatkut, also can mean "cutting off," and with his plan to dismantle
the settlements in the Gaza Strip and redeploy the Israeli army to its
borders, Sharon is in fact cutting off the Palestinians from the peace
process. As Jerusalem based reporters Jerrold Kessel and Pierre
Klochendler put it, Sharon's method relies on "managing the conflict
with the Palestinians much more than it is about actually resolving the
conflict."

The critical foundation lurking within Sharon's plan, which remains
obscured by the recent internecine clashes between the Yesha Council
and the Israeli police, is that he has discharged himself of any
concerns about Gaza's fate: regardless if the PA experiment succeeds or
fails in Gaza, Sharon has won. Domestically, Sharon has at least
forestalled Israel's demographic dilemma by cutting off 1.3 million
Palestinians from the rest of Israel and he has appeased the Left, who
often put the blame on Israel's growing poverty on expenses for the
settlement project. Internationally, Sharon is being hailed as taking a
critical move towards for peace, and, as the Israeli U.N. Ambassador
Dan Gillerman predicts, Israel "bashing" in the UN will come to an end.
As for the Palestinians, former MK Amnon Rubinstein, a supporter of the
plan, has admitted that Gaza will "cease to be Israel's responsibility
in the eyes of the world. This would be a huge advantage, an
existential advantage" Essentially, either Palestinians will be
preoccupied with developing Gaza as settlements in the West Bank become
permanent, or Gaza will falter and Sharon will be hailed as having
proven that Palestinians are incapable of self-rule.

It is true that in his speech to the Israeli people on the evacuations
in Gaza on August 17, Ariel Sharon made stark references to the
horrible conditions Palestinians there live with, something almost
unheard of coming from the man who personally oversaw much of the
demolition of the region in campaigns during1955 and 1956. But it is
important to recall that Sharon is a master of deception when he has a
unilateral policy in mind. As Defense Minister under Menachim Begin in
1982, Ariel Sharon systematically lied to his own boss and fellow
Cabinet Members about the aims of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
Repeatedly Begin's Cabinet found itself post facto approving actions
already taken by Sharon, such as the penetration of Beirut, if for no
other reason than to catch up with facts on the ground.

On the Palestinian side, much has been made of the potential political
clashes between Hamas (who has already claimed credit for the Israeli
pullback) and the PA. There are two simple scenarios for the short-term
future of Gaza, one of chaos or one of orderly development. But even if
the latter scenario emerges, Ariel Sharon will still have the upper
hand, for many Palestinians see the "disengagement plan" as a move to
not only placate the United States and European Union, but allows for a
reassertion, if not expansion, of the Israel's settlement plan in the
West Bank. Indeed, even as settlers are being moved from Gaza, new
"neighborhoods" in occupied East Jerusalem are springing up, while much
of the West Bank is imprisoned in what Palestinians call the Wall of
Racial Division. As Ghazi Hamed, editor of Gaza's al-Resala, explains,
"We will be worrying about mounds of garbage and trying to get
investment, while [Sharon] carries on building a wall around
Jerusalem."

The PLO, which has developed into the backbone of the PA, has had great
difficulty in making the transformation from a revolutionary movement
into building a civil society. Often seen as archaic and hopelessly
corrupt under Arafat (Thomas Friedman often opines that the second
Intifada was as much a revolt against the Palestinian old guard as it
was against Israel), Hamas and Islamic Jihad have gained immense
amounts of popularity. While the PLO's Fatah paints slogans around the
West Bank proclaiming that they have been "fighting the struggle for 40
years," the Islamic parties are expected to do very well in next
January's Parliamentary elections. This is especially so in Gaza, which
has seen a skyrocketing rise in unemployment and poverty during the
last five years.

While Israel is retreating from Gaza with a 'hands-free, care-free'
attitude, the United States has placed its bets on economic development
to solve Gaza's political ills, and has made former World Bank director
James Wolfenshoen its head envoy. But while Israel has withdrawn its
forces from within Gaza, they still remain in total control without;
giving lie to the illusion that the occupation in Gaza has ended,
Israel remains in control of Gaza's economic future ­ and Sharon
doesn't seem to care.

Gaza's Economic Future

Sharon's unilateral policy on Gaza has remained conspicuously vague in
delineating what powers and autonomy it will return to the Palestinian
Authority. Only with pressure from the Quartet and the World Bank have
the Israelis hinted at what areas they are willing to ease restrictions
on. Of greatest concern to the economic health of Gaza is external
access to goods, namely the reorganization of land borders, the
re-opening of Gaza's air and seaports and the future of the
Israeli-Palestinian customs union.

The economic situation of the Gaza Strip is bleak. Even before the
recent Intifada and ruinous Israeli invasions and demolitions, Gaza's
post-Oslo economic outlook was only moderately positive. The limited
autonomy given to Gaza through the Oslo Accords placed it in an
economic orbit wholly dependent on Israel. In addition to having to
purchase all necessary resources non-competitively from the occupying
power, Israeli goods were given preferential treatment, primarily at
the expense of Palestinian goods from the West Bank. Essentially,
Israel has established what one scholar has described as lasting
"predatory colonial economic relations" with the Palestinian
Territories, which were only solidified in the Oslo Accords and remain
in effect today.

Gaza's vitality was almost completely squelched during the four and a
half years of the Al-Aqsa Intifada, where poverty and unemployment
soared while the Israeli army claimed the lives of thousands and
engaged untold physical destruction. In urban environments where
already almost half of the population are refugees, a further 25,000
homes were either totally or partially destroyed by Israeli operations.
Furthermore, Israel's repeated internal and external closures
devastated the economy, pushing poverty past 65% and unemployment to
over 35% (unofficially as high as 70%). Finally, The World Bank
asserted that while the ceasefire and end to closures are clearly
beneficial to Gaza's recovery, the outlook for some 16% of Palestinians
living at mere subsistence levels is not likely to change.
In order for Palestine to (re)build its economy, it needs to attract
foreign direct investment. This has been exacerbated by Israel's
announcement that it intends by 2008 to end its long-time policy of
allowing Palestinian workers into Israel. Confidence is critical to
long-term investment strategies and Sharon's plan clearly does not do
enough to bring back the full confidence and hope that Gaza attracted
in 1995. The Palestinian Authority estimates that since the start of
the Intifada, private-sector investment fell by over two-thirds.
Outside assistance will prove critical in addition to what the G8
recently pledged for the Palestinian Territories. Yet there are still
fundamental steps Israel could take to help bring in the private
investments that are critical for Gaza's long-term success.

Israel's border policies are key, not just to investor confidence, but
to the very sustenance of the Palestinian Territories. Currently,
Israel has agreed to revamp the Erez and Karni crossings into Israel,
promising new high-tech security checks that should expedite cargo
transit (paid for by USAID). This is a first step, but not enough to
win the full confidence of those who may wish to do business in Gaza.
The World Bank has urged Israel to duplicate these facilities so that
should a security incident warrant the closure of one crossing, goods
can still quickly make their way though. In addition, anyone operating
in these situations would expect proper arbitration and dispute
resolution mechanisms if, say, produce spoiled because of delays.
Israel so far has not agreed to establish these with the Palestinian
Authority.

Furthermore, the 'back-to-back' system of transportation that Israel
has forced the Palestinians to operate with only exacerbate costs and
time. While the disengagement in Gaza will eliminate the need to
transfer goods between vehicles at checkpoints internally, this
duplicitous system will remain at the borders: vehicles from Gaza
cannot enter Israel or the West Bank and vice versa. Without a further
opening of Gaza's borders, few investors would find it sensible to do
business in Gaza. As Akiva Eldar summarized in a recent editorial, "a
Palestinian worker who is detained three hours at the barricade cannot
compete with a Thai worker who lives in his boss' storage room."
In addition to a loosening of controls over Gaza's borders, it is also
imperative that Israel consents to the re-opening of Gaza's air and
seaports. The reopening of Gaza's airport, which was heavily damaged by
the IDF in the recent conflict, has not progressed, and Israel has
hinted that it will only allow helicopter traffic in the near future,
impairing the potential for business contacts from neighboring
countries to have easy access.

A final major point of contention is Israel's announced intention of
abrogating the "quasi"customs agreement with the Palestinians in the
Gaza strip. The Palestinian Authority has rejected this, noting that it
would not only be damaging to economic prospects in the immediate
future, but would also further alienate the Gaza Strip from the West
Bank and East Jerusalem. The present arrangement gives Palestinian
goods an edge in Israeli markets while generating critical tax revenue
for the PA. The World Bank has warned that while the current customs
agreement should not remain in place for long, it is essential to Gaza
in the short term for getting its agricultural and industrial economy
back on its feet and ending the union at this point would greatly
increase transaction costs for Gaza-West Bank commerce.

Dr. Aharon Kleiman of Tel Aviv University further stressed that an
abrogation of the quasi-customs union with has the potential to turn a
future Palestinian nation into a bifurcated state. The creation of two
entities with separate economic arrangements could fracture Palestinian
unity. This would be a severe blow to Palestinian nationalism and
further push Gaza into Egypt's economic orbit while the West Bank would
likely orient itself more towards Jordan.

Finally, there is a need for a rapid and direct link between Gaza and
the West Bank. With Sharon's unilateral move for disengagement, this
subject has naturally not been fleshed out in negotiations. Potential
options that take Israel's security concerns into consideration involve
either a raised or sunken highway or a rail link connecting the two
territories. Such a move would intertwine the two territories
economically and allowing price convergence and boost internal markets.
Finally, the link is clearly essential for a unified Palestinian
national identity.

At the Sharm El-Sheikh summit between Israeli and Palestinian leaders,
PM Sharon declared, "together we can ensure our people's lives of
freedom and stability, prosperity and peace." While his rhetoric might
be in the right place, it is unfortunate that Israel's current steps
towards peace remain unilateral directives with only minimal
cooperation with the Palestinians. Former MK Avraham Burg, a founding
member of Peace Now and whose father served in the Begin Cabinet with
the current Prime Minister, has termed the whole escapade a "vast
fraud". The redeployment plan is a thinly veiled attempt for Sharon to
solidify Israeli control over the West Bank, maintain an obfuscated
occupation of the Gaza Strip and to splinter what should be a united
and free Palestinian nation. No matter what, Sharon has taken the
initiative and for the old warrior it means he has won this round.

Benjamin Granby works for the Palestine Monitor in Ramallah, West Bank,
is a former human rights worker in Gaza City and is author of the
forthcoming, Welcome to the Bethlehem Star Hotel from Garrett County
Press.
B***@isp.com
2005-10-21 02:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Since he is at all times an antisemite, this request for information is
uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.british, alt.politics.british
The antisemite's habit is to avoid posting to Jewish groups
in order promulgate his Nazism without repercussion.
I can't stand you lot and *I* post to jew NG's. Do try and
get your facts right once in a while.
Post by Ariadne
His attempt to limit response to his hatreds however
does not even work in British groups, thanks to those
who abhor his foul posts and his attempt to strip
others of freedom.
It is *you* lot who wish to curb free speech via the obscene
ADL and other jew groups. What freedom of speech does the BNP
wish to do away with?
Post by Ariadne
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Eh?

You're a bit thick aren't you.
Jon°
2005-10-21 10:11:27 UTC
Permalink
All the Yiddisher schmucks in this thread are as thick as a wall of shit in
a sewerage. No Jew with any pride would make the filthy statements that
these filth have made on Usenet..

They are a bunch of gangsters and louts, probably involved in spiv
businesses and bullies to boot. Mind, face to face they would not have the
courage of a worm.
<***@isp.com> wrote in message
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-21 15:56:55 UTC
Permalink
What gives you the right to speak for Jews?

You hate Jews!

You and BO-HO are the filthy British NAZI scumbags.


"Jon�" <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@212.67.96.135...
: All the Yiddisher schmucks in this thread are as thick as a wall of
shit in
: a sewerage. No Jew with any pride would make the filthy statements
that
: these filth have made on Usenet..
:
: They are a bunch of gangsters and louts, probably involved in spiv
: businesses and bullies to boot. Mind, face to face they would not have
the
: courage of a worm.
: <***@isp.com> wrote in message
:
:
Ariadne
2005-10-21 16:38:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
What gives you the right to speak for Jews?
You hate Jews!
You and BO-HO are the filthy British NAZI scumbags.
No reasonable person could possibly disagree
with that conclusion.

I notice that Chavdullah has still not provided
evidence of any "death threat" mad against him on
Usenet.
Jason P
2005-10-21 19:12:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
What gives you the right to speak for Jews?
You hate Jews!
You and BO-HO are the filthy British NAZI scumbags.
No reasonable person could possibly disagree
with that conclusion.
I notice that Chavdullah has still not provided
evidence of any "death threat" mad against him on
Usenet.
Jeeezzz...
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